tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post4863285677409126665..comments2023-06-30T01:09:01.332-07:00Comments on Numismatics and Archaeology: Two Tons of Ancient Coins Found in ChinaNathan Elkinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13060145336179440359noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post-53906916358562231472009-06-14T09:00:27.411-07:002009-06-14T09:00:27.411-07:00Thank you. Yes, this does look like a rescue opera...Thank you. Yes, this does look like a rescue operation, but due to an ongoing building project rather than fear of looting. And yes, sorry 2 not 5 tons, but still a lot of coins which will likely not be recorded in any real detail even when they are in the hands of archaeologists. <br /><br />This does raise another point, though. In China, apparently most items that appear on the market come from construction projects. Here, probably because the find was on the property of a school [which would be state owned and run]archaeologists were called in. However, in most cases this probably would not happen. One can see why from a builder's perspective if it will slow down the job and the state will keep what is found. And if the builder has good relations with the local party bosses, there probably isn't much to fear for not reporting. <br /><br />Presumably, the construction crews leveling Old Kashghar on the Silk Road will also find much of interest. It will be interesting to see if any of it is reported or not. <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Peter TompaCultural Property Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05924359202414555962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post-49850088357236478182009-06-14T07:17:35.275-07:002009-06-14T07:17:35.275-07:00Certainly it was a hurried excavation and, therefo...Certainly it was a hurried excavation and, therefore, less scientific. <br /><br />The circumstances involved would make this a "rescue excavation." Archaeologists are often forced to move very quickly in situations like these where objects of potentially high market value are being recovered since nighthawks, treasure hunters, and other criminals will rob everything away at the first opportunity. Note that the article referenced the presence of police to protect the archaeologists/materials.<br /><br />When I first began my studies, I recall visiting an excavation where an undisturbed tomb was present near the site. It appeared local tomb raiders had not yet recognized it. When I asked the director why it had not yet been excavated, he told me that it would be very expensive to get the appropriate number of conservationists and specialists on site to open an undisturbed tomb and to process and record all the expected classes of finds. Additionally, he said one of the greatest costs would be paying armed security guards to protect the archaeologists and specialists working there and the tomb 24 hours a day until the excavation was complete, unless it was a hurried salvage operations which he did not wish to undertake (not as scientific). <br /><br />Had the two tons of coins been expected, perhaps more planning as far as security would have been in order, but this was not the case. It is yet another example of how material science is forced to compete with treasure hunters.Nathan Elkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13060145336179440359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post-209705927109463692009-06-14T07:04:57.430-07:002009-06-14T07:04:57.430-07:00Nathan- I wouldn't be so sure that this inves...Nathan- I wouldn't be so sure that this investigation is up to the standards archaeologists regularly claim are adhered to in their profession.<br /><br />Note what the article actually says:<br /><br />It took more than five hours to dig the ancient coins out of a vault made of grey bricks.<br />Zhao said they were in circulation for more than 750 years during the Tang, Song (960-1279) and Yuan (1279-1368) Dynasties.<br />The vault measures 1.5 meters in width and length and one meter in height. It is believed to have been built during the Yuan Dynasty.<br />The coins have been sent to a local museum and archaeologists were counting them. Because there were so many, it might take a week to know the exact number and categories, Zhao said.<br /><br />Let's be realistic. A careful archaeological excavation does not take place in 5 hours. It may indeed take a week to count and sort through 5 tons of coins, but it would probably take years to go through the group carefully cataloguing them and keeping records of the relationship of individual coins together in this large group.<br /><br />Also, what do you suppose the Chinese will do with 5 more tons of cash coins once they are sorted? <br /><br />Sincerely, <br /><br />Peter TompaCultural Property Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05924359202414555962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post-6200682293206970422009-06-14T06:28:50.830-07:002009-06-14T06:28:50.830-07:00Fortunately, as this article indicates, this group...Fortunately, as this article indicates, this grouping of coins was found in situ and was able to be put in an historical context via its associated material remains. <br /><br />Had it been found by a treasure hunter, we would have had tens of thousands of duplicate coins entering the market - adding no knowledge in their own right - making a few people rich. The historical context reported here would have been lost.<br /><br />It appears the grouping of coins is now being studied further by specialists.Nathan Elkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13060145336179440359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4914712220641136227.post-92162242026085604032009-06-13T11:13:56.315-07:002009-06-13T11:13:56.315-07:00In China in recent years archaeologists have more ...In China in recent years archaeologists have more than once found equally large coin hoards. Indeed, Helen Wang's "Money on the Silk Road" reports that such hoards are so numerous that Chinese archaeologists typically only bother to sample the coins to ascertain dates. Incidentally, on that score, wide date ranges are not uncommon in hoards of Chinese coins. When the coins were called in for melting in the 1920's, strands of cash coins were found to have coins 1000 years old in them mixed with other, more recent issues. <br /><br />In any event, one really wonders what happens to these numerous coins once found in state sanctioned digs. China has a very large open internal market for ancient Chinese coins. Perhaps, with rampant corruption being what it is in China, some are siphoned off for sale there. Given the numbers available and the cost of properly displaying and preserving them, that probably would not be a bad outcome, at least after there was some serious attempt to record them. <br /><br />The State Department's papers in the ongoing FOIA litigation brought by IAPN, PNG and ACCG seem to confirm information from the Chinese Embassy that China never actually asked for import restrictions on coins. No wonder given these large numbers available and the wide open market for them in China itself. <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Peter TompaCultural Property Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05924359202414555962noreply@blogger.com